What’s a good back swing position?

It depends.

if you do a modern style swing its like this,
fwpro

You see pelvis has turned into a wheel barrow.
The V shape of the pelvis and body don’t allow for power.
The head don’t move in the back swing, you cover the ball, all modern swing geometry concepts.

I don’t agree upon this being a good back swing position.

 

 


or you can do this,

hansMove off the ball, basically no V shape between pelvis and the body, no wheelbarrow. You can swing 20mph faster with less effort than a modern swing is able to do without straining and getting off the limitations they have.

A superb position IMO.

Now a guy like Monte said the guy I show that is a great swing. I disagree on that yes it’s a great swing if you like to hit it short and inconsistent as no human guy I know wants to hit it short, none.

I rather look like Hans in my back swing than that other modern swing. Its my preference as I never found restrictions in motion is good for timing.

A tour pro is trying to control their swing and I train Hans to go wild. I train him to be more animal to be raw to swing within his preferences to make him do what he wants to do not what the swing wants you to do.

rob

Its much like riding a bike, you can sit down all the time or stand up and ride the country wildly. My own swing and its back ground is being re-worked daily now and changes are made based upon the template.

When done I look like Hans swings also.

I would do a change based upon personal preferences, mine are a fast swing, my muscle receptors fire fast and to learn the proper pelvis action I reverted to dance feel and action. I can do that as it allows me to become aware of what I want to do when I swing.

Yes, Hans is the poster guy, the role model for this swing but I am now also posting more about my own progress and also soon Larry. Once done we will look like Hans or Austin just in our own way.

mike

 

Mike Austin hitting an iron. No V shape.

Golf swing updates (updated)

Had a in-depth chat with Larry, he now have the foundation there. So I hope the coming days he is able to hit the range, work on it and send a video or two to check for. He hits it longer yes, by far it still arise when it use to go down. I estimate a few weeks until its just is solid golden swing from him.

He really had a good couple of days, the text I sent him and the work he done and my chat today made its just better so he should be able to really have a good swing motion for next video update.

Hans hit a ball today also, feels good he says.

5 iron

 

My own progress?

its just range I wait for.

I still turn and rotate a bit into the down swing, it will get fixed once I hit balls (main flaw atm).  Right knee and leg is improving and will also improve with balls. Its now much better since last time indoors with balls.

Comparing myself when I swing indoors demo this for Larry vs actually swing with a ball isn’t fair but at least give an impression of if I am on track or not.
jämföra

I lack a slight pelvis drop, also due to lack of ball as I don’t want to hit the floor and I don’t if I swing this way and feedback from range is what I need right now. Pelvis is angled, good, I increased spine angle, good. Right knee folding, good. Rotational move is holding this back atm. However its better and as far I can conclude the next few days Larry going to set new records. His old swing limitation is gone and handled without needing to be fixed.

Update: So looking at my own action, the why was obvious so altered the start of the swing was needed. Fixed it by altering the left foot a bit and angling a bit differently.
All good now. still hitting balls at the range is needed.

How good is Hans?

I wanted to build a world class player.
525770_3137421206887_364944324_n

Once I went into study the golf swing mechanics I also applied the same for me as I would benefit and also help me understand this better and once that was going on consistency search also happen as any tour pro needs that but none has it.

I think in terms of skills here, like if Hans has a 2-4% dispersion pattern and he should have that this spring, and normally a player wins when they are at those numbers, and when they don’t they have a 8% as a normal one and even worse when they hit it way more, like Mickelson hitting a 7i 15 yards off line and into a forest.

So its about dispersion control, then distance and then efficiency.

Talking to Hans its evident this is all getting there and I fully assume and expect him to be around 2-4% dispersion as his normal pattern. That is what happens when your able to focus on what works.

I am about to talk to Larry soon on Skype, he now have all there is there to know about his golf swing except one thing, swinging it like pros with their impact. Its also hard to learn by yourself if you’re an amateur like myself been,what’s a pro impact, what does it feel like and how do I do it?

One of the things I did notice indoors with Simon hitting balls I could consistently make ball contact first. I knew how to get my club head there, and the ball took off. Now I had some body motions that was good, but from where I come from I notice the difference and I also took notice off this is how those pro guys does it. Recently at indoors home I cant do much more now, I need range work to improve ball impact and how much I need to alter my down swing to make it the way I want it. I expect to swing it like a pro during spring.

If I can play like a pro is another matter, the same way its about how good Hans is, we find out. If he can have those skills into those I want, and improve them, he either win or be in contention in every competition he enters. World class then.

I am 50 year old, and I own kids in fps games like BF4. It’s a bad game design and DICE really dropped the ball since BF2 days. I view golf swings and instructors much the same, they want you to have a hand or arm or elbow somewhere and I think however I see them swing and they say its better they are not able to do it consistently. I then study Moe Norman as he was consistent, and yes Mike Austin guys would say they hit  a 6i the same distance Moe hit driver and Moe still would beat them with 15 shots. So I looked into Moe, and formulated an idea there, then added Nicklaus, and then set things in motion this spring. Its most likely the amateurs I am teaching as of today is the only ones I take on. My skill set is geared towards the PGA/LPGA tour as my skill set is without question so much more efficient than those coaches have at their disposal. So I wait for Hans to practice play, then once that works, then I find out how he does in competitions.

Skill set decide to a large extent how good you be, as you can improve a skill set and if your normal one is what the guys winning have, well then you will do good whoever skill and background you have.

Larry for example is 67 years old and haven’t yet understood how a tour pro makes contact which is now his limitation or inhibition if you like and to discover that himself is possible but hard, so I taught and pointed out to him what he needed to build to get there, but I haven’t told him why I said the things I said, he just a good student, follow my instructions, those that don’t like my teaching style, well they wont last past my writing.
I taught his body and mind this you need to learn then this, feel and sensations then this and then that and he done it all. Tonight I let the dog loose, the tiger, the elephant into the room of glass.  Time to go animalistic.

How should you discover what its like to feel a tour pro impact if you never done it? How can you change the pattern unless you discover the proper correct one? Its really hard to do so yourself without support, Skype allows me to see you swing, it helps me to add variations into your patterns and teach you about what your body is doing educating your action until you can arrive at what works.

Larry is about there now. He is a dedicated student, just ask his wife.

To discover what its like allows you feedback, if your play as Hans is discovering that he just hits it straight then I can help him improve that now with RBIm pattern’s as that is doable but focus on technique isn’t.  If you measure your skill level if I do this then I am playing like this then its all you need to do to create the foundation to play at your potential.

Once Hans does that, Jacob Bowden is going to call me and Stacy Lewis.

If they don’t well, I be here waiting sipping coffee.

Moe Norman golf swing

I like this Moe video.

Let say you want to copy Moe’s ball striking.

Problem is here you cant do it from the stance he used at old age. You cant get the same action Moe did doing that.

Now Moe set the club up behind the ball like a foot or such not set up straight like your told to do. Now doing that you do as Moe would say save a foot of moving the body and he also says, I couldn’t hit the ball the way if I set the club at the ball. Moe, then just did what he felt he needed to do, angled his club and body away a bit, then hit it.

For anyone doing this, it will simplify your motion in the back swing, its now just a lift and you still need to know the weight shift as copy a good player means they often do things your or me as a player isn’t doing so copy what they tell you they did and reason for it might not work.

Naturally as range opens up I go out there set it up like Moe and find out if it helps me simplify what I am doing. Just because a few million people even a billion talks mandarin or such don’t mean they are the main language in the world but one day might be according to Joss Whedon. Just because people tell you to set up the club behind the ball don’t mean it’s the best way to learn to swing the club. The question I would ask Moe if he was around, how come he cant hit it with the club head behind the ball vs the one he did?

Once he angle out his set up, he also angle his upper and middle body along the way. He essentially make the same move Ben Hogan used to do with the back leg moving off it as fast he could, now Hogan did that due to his bad right leg and Moe learned to do that with his swing as he swung at his younger age you see dynamic athletic action and how he learned to respond to the pressure points, that when he grow old does also but now it doesn’t look athletic anymore.

This is Hans 2011.

2014

 

So while he was able to swing at around 120mph with his old swing his back couldn’t handle it. Now? He be able to swing at 130mph with less effort than his old 120mph swing. It now looks simpler than what he used to do. It is, its more efficient and better.

Getting there for him took less than 3 weeks from the last down swing sequence and since I told him about pressure points 8 weeks.

Larry atm have the sequence down now, next stop for him as he can respond is to change the down swing for him but for Larry it means a different thing than for Hans or for Moe. Larry has the swing motion now I wanted him to have. I didn’t teach him that swing motion, he taught himself. Now he has left overs from his old swing, and I bet when I tell him what I am telling him next time we Skype he will go, oh but that’s easy?

Its easy or simple now when he done the work to the point when we can change it to work for him. Its like Hans, took me a long time to get his ass out of his head to actually listens that whatever he been taught is bad for him and he needed to change this, today? He tells me should done this 20 years ago.

Looking at Moe, we see 50 years of swing simplified. Copy or replicate what he tells you even his set up is not good its a disaster waiting. Look at Mike Austin he was a educated man, smart but still the students are not able to replicate the motion he did as they are missing out on something. Its like that for anyone including me, its why I don’t teach people the way NLP does it as I find more copies of Grinder, Bandler, Dilts, Riggio etc..are not good for NLP in the long run nor more copies of me.

I love when my students surprise me like Margareta did as she said to me what I taught her and I smiled to her and said, no baby you did that on your own.

Larry is about to surprise himself.

I think Moe will agree on that.

What is the difference – That I teach with a golf swing?

I work with the natural timing, rhythm and lets call it attitude of the individual and from that I create a consistent golf swing you can do day out and day in. It means I can tailor the work I do to any individual, any golf swing they might have and offer suggestions to what to do so it works.

That’s what a model allows me to do, I follow the template and that gives me instructions to what to do for the individual.

Larry sent me a video today, love that and the swing motion looks good now ( I say perfect), all that is there now is to make sure he don’t do his old tighten up action. I wrote him but I assume he will need a Skype talk to explain it for him. Its just more condensed to talk about it than read about it.

I did read a post on golfwrx forum that helped me define the above, what I can do is to make sure your swing is identical in tempo from one swing to the next swing. That creates consistency no tour player is able to do today in each swing they do.

Any modeling project also teaches me about my own process, the result I arrive at, so next up is a look into the RBIm template again as its not complete yet.  I am glad and happy to be done with the golf swing template as I know what to do with the template there and it works, it also needs Skype and feedback to the player live but today its doable thanks to Skype and tech progress. To talk and watch someone on the other side of the Atlantic and be able to offer direct feedback sitting home drinking coffee?

Love it.

And yes even if I know what to do, still take time to get it there for the player and golfer.

pw to spoon, set the clock for each swing.

Modeling Golf

Many assume its about their golf swing and I go its just part of the game. I ask do you make solid contact, do you compress the ball and if so your good to go.  Those playing the tour have learned to live with their game, their swing their compensations they don’t seek the secret.  Now, its not about the set up, it has a reason as anything but we ask, or at least I do ask this, if the golf swing search is over for me, I now understand what to do to create a golf swing motion, then what else?

Consistency playing.

I am asking Hans every time he practice about this, I want results and feedback and yesterday (no Beatles association). I devised a plan in 3 steps, first how the game plan  works from RBIm and the FutureNow and then decision strategy template from Nicklaus tweaked version 1.0 and then the execution of the swing action based upon the down swing pressure point. A pressure point is what it sounds like, a point in your body you respond by pressure. Like weight, like force, like torque like such. I talk vestibular here, Intu-flow tai chi, qi the invisible, unseen elusive force beyond. Until you understand what to attend to in the golf swing without technique then its just about dude, how my body moves trough space like Dr Who.  Then your understand that everything you ever did know about a golf swing is so strange, complicated and unneeded. I am about to have a Skype session with a young golfer, to assist him in his quest to play better golf.

Once we found what its about then we can start improving.

Its about identifying the essential bits, then we can work what works and then improve, yes at first it be confusing, as understanding my language isn’t easy I know, try my Swedish if you think my English sucks. Once I am able to see and watch someone swing their body I can point them to where they need to feel this, without it you cant do it. To find it on your own? no way. Hans couldn’t, he is by far the one I had most contact with the last few years and he spent more time rearranging his head since Genghis khans days.

Defining this when there is no definition is also why I don’t spend much time on golf forums they still argue what they should do and I already know that but unless you receive hands on instruction whatever I write here, wont be enough. I swing indoors now, and I go great tempo, great pivot action, great speed, and I still need to hit balls to fully be able to swing improve from this point now. I know now what to do, it will go faster and faster to improve now.

For example this is DJ Watts to the left in a typical just before/at impact sequence image, we see his right pelvis and hip is level or even slightly higher which means he is loosing out on 15mph at least in speed.

driver perfectjämför

We can compare that to Hans, the old image of Hans (white) he was swinging at around 120mph when he played and today I expect him to be at 130mph under control.. once that right pelvis is turning and hip follows, your swing speed has to slow down and cant accelerate trough the hitting zone.

Hips don’t add speed if the right hip gets there with that pelvis action, your already moving the force the wrong way in the down swing there.

You want the angle of the pelvis and hips to be as Hans shows or like this, Like Mike
hansmike

If the angle isn’t like that your loosing out of a lot of power. I also talk about 20mph. That’s like 50 more yards. All due to better pelvis action.

The above is just evidence of the visual difference that happens when your able to start powering your swing motion. You will look similar when your done.  However the visual is just there to check if your doing it right or not (evidence) for me, I make personal suited videos and explain what you need to know and feel in the swing which is individual depending what motion you currently have.

Feel some say is universal all feel it different they all say,
I disagree on that myth.

My feel is exactly the same as Hans is when hitting that low spinning wedge killing a rabbit when it stops on two on the green. I cant say I can do it consistently due to the greens I play normally those shots isn’t needed. I guess if I play better that shot goes on top of the list to master then.

The feel of the pressure point will also be the same, how you later reference it for yourself will be different but it’s the same. Its what all these old swing guys did, they all responded to the same pressure points its why they all shared the same things in their swings (Nelson, Palmer, Nicklaus, Hogan, Snead etc..), and Austin? He had a different one.

Its how you end up in your motion, once Hans did it, I knew I found it. Then sorting, organizing and teaching is still under progress and processing.

In the modern swing they talk about hip speed, and I go, hips don’t do much speed. if you say its about how much the pelvis turns I go well you don’t want to do that and create speed as that will crash your back ask Rory about it. If you don’t want to do a modern swing you either have to go with natural Golf or E2E or such swings, but the drawback is, speed and power.

I also would to some extent on the accuracy also, if you want control like Hans wants you want speed and a lot of control of your swing pattern, distance and dispersion, then you want to scale the power and speed into manageable efficiency. I knew once I found the way you make decision out there that with this new swing motion understanding I also could utilize this to create better dispersion patterns and distance controls. Now, this is a bit under testing atm, I wish the spring was here summer even so I could go outside, test it, feedback, tape it and then present it in a better form than the written word.

Feel can be quantified, defined, mapped, categorized and used to find out what happens when the body moves trough space, but as anything you need practice into intu-flow and refine your sensitivity as when you find out what then the how happens by itself.

Start by feeling the grip and pressure when moving your club to the top and to impact and make sure you don’t add pressure. This will do more for your golf swing than any other advice.

Adding pressure while swinging is often a indication of compensation going on.

I am a scientist

I love science, I also love girls, sweet ideas and a curly corner of fresh bed sheets and a whole lot of other stuff out there. Science is this field where you study things however be careful what field you study as some fields cant be proven yet like you know black holes, it can just be indicated but we are not sure yet what those holes are if they are even holes.

I let the guys in a wheel chair figures those out.

Myself?

Philanthrop maybe, or researcher and definitely a superhero as it’s a must as whenever we have aliens here I want my spaceship I was promised.

Anyhow, when I study golf I like other guys doing the same Kelvin from the island of Hawaii does that. It wont mean I understand what he did study at first hell I was slow but now? Ah yes the riches of hindsight the past catches up with your cognitive brain and goes like duuude please stop smoking crack, no that wasn’t me that was that guy sleeping in a coroner place and proven by far without science that crack is bad for you or anyone else for that matter or meth or any other such drug stay of them….

If you want to understand todays tour pro swings, his Kelvins site is superb.

However I didn’t just study a tour pro nor did I study crack addicts for golf its just evidence for science that we can prove things to be true by casual things also.

What you choose to study is as important.

I choose to study, how to hit it long without being built by a broiler or genetic enhanced like one as those long driving guys many of them could lift my mom, dad and me with a finger.

So I choose Mike Austin as a role model for my project. I pointed out truths, none wanted to understand what I said apparently like kids on a daycare all is crying with no attention to what they do cry about. A scientist however care about the truth, falsified data is common to wanting to prove your idea/theory/hypothesis right. Oh wait that’s confirming beliefs people already have about things they want to stay true to isn’t it? Like they are not gay when they suck other guys dicks or let someone else sucks theirs right? Like drugs is good for you? Or that fucking your wife’s sister isn’t really cheating or that boy with a butt you could kill for? Or that we really want to keep truths which are outdated no matter what we want to believe that is a scientists job to prove things that are already true. Its just with science if its a good one cant really tell this days, I proven the whole research currently done I have better research result than the whole field have about dyslexia.

What people want is to stay true but if that truth no matter is true or not many stop caring about. They want what they come to believe like Newton guys did when Einstein came along they all hated him pretty much. Today we know both are true but guys like Einstein and me we are bringing out new things new truths which takes time to accept. Its like girls who have a hard time believing they just orgasmic so hard they started to cry as being so happy in a corner.

Why is Hans the only one of any Mike Austin student the only one looking like Mike Austin when he swings the compound Pivot?

 

That is what I wanted to model, the motion of Mike Austin and task accomplished.  I also wanted to understand the golf swing better and yes I do thank you. I studied consistency also along the way and formulated a test to that to create a better platform to make that happen also.

Now, for me I also ask, why is then Hans able to do so when no student of Mike was able to?

Now the scientist in me awakens, it’s a difference here, some truths to be found so evidently what he does works but the questing is then how do we replicate this?  So that I or you can also learn to create such elegant motion? Its also efficient and yes you hit it darn long also.

Now my question here is why was able to do this and make it happen to Hans? One he was good in golf already he made the leg work some say, so adding a efficient motion to what he did do was relatively easy as he could do a lot of work himself with my instructions.

Now I have a few students, I have no interest to largely create a golf school and stand there all day in Florida talking about the golf swing and teach hundreds of students about this golf swing since if I did do that then I wouldn’t have time to study other things. I guess I cross that bridge and then got to think what to do but until then.

My next phase is to replicate this motion for some other guys and it includes me. The motion is found and done. Its replicated. Next is, does the pressure points and such the feel be able to make it say to someone else?

You need to feel the club head hitting the ball first so you need to train yourself to hold the club in a light grip and feel that your not adding pressure during the swing aka tighten the grip. I did that daily for three weeks at the range, every swing focus on grip at address at the top and at impact until I felt it. I did that and if you cant feel it, so do you need to do as you need to feel the club head hit the ball and where on the head and blade. If you cant feel that how do you know if you hit it thin, fat or how much? Once you felt and created that the club head does hit the ball you know where the club should end up and then tweaking the rest of the body along the way to do this is one way. It might be needed to make you do that first to then be able to do what I want you to do.

It might be enough with the compound pivot.

Problem with beliefs is that we once we have them we proven them to be true for us if there is aliens that lives next door is true for many. I don’t argue with them about their beliefs or aliens for that matter, I just point out that their alien looks like miss smith age 20 with eyes of blue skies and she don’t seem alien but best I go there and strip search her anyway right? However if she is an alien she might be one that eat people or worse dicks. It’s a though world to live in when aliens could eat you I guess.

Science is cool, what stars are made off, if the weather is going to be fixed any day soon but I guess the scientistists are more like, what happens if we turn that knob a little more oh wait that the movie mad scientist right? Most companies releasing bad stuff into the air are now killing people with after effects.

Maybe I am little autistic, I think I am a bit actually. I must be as I told every Austin trainer of golf they didn’t do it right. Mark, none of them seems to be interested in what I do either, most tells me to fuck off, shut up and go fuck a goat or something. None have mailed me except Dennis Anderson and he is welcomed to explain the above why.

I forgive you Einstein I understand now what all those Newtonians sent you all those clocks. Time will tell if its true or not even though many truths are buried alive.

Its not about being right even though that is important as truth about that right is the criterion here. I don’t like spending time doing research unless I am finding that the field I study talk a lot of shit. Its true in the Joseph Riggio case, asked him a question got stories, asked Bandler a question got stories, so I studied that field called NLP defined it with dyslexia it was an accident like penicillin as I wanted to know why this girl age 11 was a mess with her spelling and reading and was in a special school in a special class with 6 more students when I did 2 sessions and all her issues went away. I thought it was easy to do it.

Golf oh boy nothing comes close to golfers about beliefs about myths many cant even agree upon which grip is best or what the elbow is suppose to do in the golf swing. Yes people still debate the Ben Hogan swing, none can do it. If they all spent time trying to do it we at least would be closer to replicate but some already shown research there, I also understand how difficult it might be to actually do research instead of endless debates that leads nowhere.

Visually comparing back pain swings

jämför

The above shows 2011 and 2014.

I saw this debate from golfwrx Its about set up and address positions from older players like Snead, Hogan, Nicklaus and more modern Rory, Tiger etc..

I disagree, the address position isn’t the issue. It is what happens in the down swing.
In the above image Hans has reach about the same positions his body posture looks about the same. We can see in his older 2011 he has a pelvis that is about level but his new 2014 its angled. Some talk about hip speed its also flawed as Hans is swinging about 10-20mph or so faster today with less hip action.

What’s key with back pain is this, if the spine from the top at the impact is not angled according to your pelvis your about to have trouble with your back. Its like a upside down T if your pelvis is angled along the spine your into what some call neutral position there is as little twists as you can do but as soon your let the spine and back twist in any way outside that upside down T your about to have issues sooner or later like Hans had with his old Ballard influenced swing.

But the angle of pelvis isn’t the whole truth, as if you have forces going sideways due to you need to lift the left side up to not hitting the ball fat (ground) your likely to add a compensation in your swing action. Older tour players still maintain the back side as a upside down T with the pelvis. 

However they do add a slight twist above the lower back which an amateur would more likely to have issues with.

 

This is Edfors a Swedish pro. Does not keep the T upside down.   You see his right side pelvis now have turned and his hip moves along this is before impact btw. while you can get away with this actions you either have to be really fit, access to a chiropractor and flexible. This is a typical swivel above the left hip which makes you loose power.

 

 

This is Rory with an iron at impact, twisted lower back.  Not good.

rory

 

 

 

I currently have a student that want a swing like Hans has today, naturally he also has a pelvis movement that prevents speed and changing into an austinique pelvis action will be better in the long run. However to do so requires patience as to find out what makes it work and the difference in effects.

The lower body and middle body acts as support from the throwing action, to do so you need to create the proper pelvis support and knee/leg action with it. The above angle of the spine for Hans you can see him 2014 have increased it and its due to his new felt force when he swings down. You will also have the same spine angle as Hans has 2014 when you do this type of swing as the pelvis moves the same for Hans as it will for you or me. Its due to the felt force angle. Once you have identified and felt it, you swing at your max potential speed for your hand eye coordination, age, flexibility/mobility and strength.

If you want speed and power making sure the back stays as an upside T with your spine and pelvis as its key to not add compensations and twists in your lower lumbar back area at impact.

t

Yes some address positions makes it harder but I can set up properly and still not swing correctly so I would look at the motion before impact and how the pelvis and hips moves before I choose a swing to follow.

(new golf blog post as I wanted to do this one before the hack incident and thanks guys to tell me that that shit was going on)