Golf forums

Its like this,

I make a guess, make up a concept thinks its corrects and argue for it.

I was called the prophet by Fredrik Wetterstrand he trains ladies in the Swedish national team in Sweden. What was worse he didn’t even understand he insulted me. Stupid? yes he is but also ignorant stupid which is even worse and he is allowed to train the national team here? seriously wrong with the world IMO.

Now I follow golfwrx sometimes, and another golf forum just for fun as I like to know what people talk about and its like the above, all guesses, its all just this nice modern golf swing people think is good for them. I ask, why do you hit it so short, then why is it so hard to master for amateurs without some serious dedication and even then it will elude them.

Talked to Hans briefly, he said he worked with a older gentleman today at the range, told him to do a small thing, the older guy added 18 yards to his irons. What was typical was the guy couldn’t understand why he it it far as it didn’t fit his view of a swing which btw is a modern version.

Beliefs are like that, assumptions we have about things we don’t know and then assume true. I have no issue with being wrong, I seldom are in fact as far I can tell I been wrong a couple of times the last 20 years. I do have proven NLP as field wrong, that people in the dyslexic field are as clueless and wrong about it’s a endless nightmare for life, and a few others along the way.  Sometimes I haven’t known the whole truth, I was told things I sometimes forgot to do source checks and then ended up thinking why do these guys teach me some stuff that isn’t correct?

I the last few days been thinking about RBIm a lot, models and such and found that the times when the brain moves the information re-locates it in the brain cause amnesia, like riding a bike, we can do it but cant recall how we did learn it. The learning process in the end produces that as you end up knowing what to do.

I am finding myself going trough that with my own golf swing motion, I am changing it now into something that will be great during spring and summer. I have no idea how it will look, I am sure it will match the motion pattern I created a template for but how my own unique signature will be I find out.

I don’t like to guess, if I do I make the best guess I can muster or simply dig for more data.

Why did Hans get back pain?

hans1

You can see his posture has the reason in the image.

My view?

The Ballard influence on Sweden’s golf community back in 1986 or so It’s a bad swing system,  Annika developed a ruptured disc with it. Hans almost broke his back as he started to swing faster and faster.

I assumed that a tour pro is knowledgeable about their own swing mechanics they know what they do. They just are clueless and more so many trainers. Hans showed me some action from Hogan once, I looked at it and said does not work that way without even knowing anything about the swing, was a simple observation from me.

I call it a bad system as any modern swings like Stack and Tilt or the other systems. It’s a rotational system and while you do can play tour pro level golf with any system none of them can make 10 shots in a row with the same tempo, Annika came closest and she had the best motion within that system I seen.

Hans had a good swing action before his swing coach he played for in his home club was influenced by Ballard and the many who quit golf is due to either bad back or the failure of reaching tour level golf.

age 15

I find that unacceptable myself.

During these 4 years I came to this understanding about golf, its about a golf swing yes for support then consistency but none out there can teach you that, you cant be consistent there in the golf swing, and all the balls strikers who was good was able to do that and there isn’t many out there. Often they was not good enough putters. Having a Mike Austin swing maybe make you hit it long, but consistently? I don’t think so. You be more consistent sure, as your not rotating as much.

I added 50 more yards, and 30 with irons for Hans in my first talk on the range with him, took him a year to accept he hit it that long, he spun balls of the greens sometimes. He qualified the first stage back in 2006 to European tour but then later his back gave up. I didn’t know what to do so I research did my addition of body work for him.

Now?

I changed his action fully from the standpoint of what he wants to do and how his body works. His new swing action has changed the timing of the movement of his back swing for one, previous he moved a lot more, why do he now move less when I didn’t tell him to change that? He don’t need to do that anymore he changed that automatically due to better body-mechanics… as it was due to the Ballard swing ideas which he didn’t need anymore as he didn’t need to move his pelvis the old way anymore as I changed his whole down swing sequence and again I did that when he told me, Coach dude I want more speed.

I said, ok, looked at his swing, said, do this. He then couldn’t do it, sent me photos from his range practice
20140131_165440_17905

as I looked at this I thought, not doing it right, called him up.

 

Talked to him, and then after a while he understood what he needed to do.

3 weeks later its pure.

He gone from this shit,

To this shit

So, now he hit it longer, with less strain, with better accuracy.
It’s a 130mph+ swing if he needs to.

Now, how can he increase speed, lessen the back lower pressure and not twist his back? Its called a compound pivot the one Mike Austin did do himself.

Í am still uneducated in the golf community, if a golf club would hire me, I make their junior players a force beyond anything any country have seen. They would dominate and win everything.

Until then I just sit here, sip some coffee and watch Hans swing.

I want to tweak and alter more sure, but I also understand there is a time and place for everything, if its good enough to win, to make the tour, be a player out there then I guess we have to wait for that to happen.

Beyond the golf swing, I told him the 3 keys to consistency,

  1. Make a plan based upon RBIm concepts.
  2. Strategy based upon Nicklaus decision making modified.
  3. Execution for tempo with the above organized into it.

I also told him to improve his putting using my own designed putting drill, he makes more putts now. He gone from thinking I am nuts to just a bit autistic now so he listens.

Wouldn’t you want to play without fear of hurting your back? add any twisting in the hitting  zone and your going to have it. I don’t twist my back when I swing either now, I just can swing at any speed and no problemo. Its going to be such for Larry also. 

The hip and pelvis isn’t made to move the way the modern swing does it either its Foley, Ballard, Leadbtteer, Monte, iteach, or some other system, its just not designed the way the body can move without pain and risk of injury.

If they tell you it is then they don’t understand bio mechanics.

Its why I put the body into 3 segments, all based upon flexibility of the body sections, that the upper body can move independently vs the middle body that can move independently of the lower body. I didn’t make up those concepts, evolution did or God if your into that stuff. I didn’t add a concept of my own view based upon a theory, my concept you can confirm yourself.

If you understand what a golf swing is about and define it as I done, you also can make adjustments but I cant make adjustments unless you also understand what your suppose to pay attention to with feel and pressure points. Once you do then you also will start to replicate and create consistency until then its work in progress but when you do get it, its like riding a bike for the first time, its obvious and, aha now I can do it.

Am I right?

I am a bit autistic so I guess we find out.

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What’s a full release?

And no its not about life other than golf which for some is more important than life make no jokes about it.

Kelvin did some research one, two and three.

So I wont do it.

What’s notable is every tour pro has a compensation release action. None of them are actually releasing their club head fully.

Hans is.

One reason to the difference here is that the pivot is slightly different which allows us to release the wrists with a full release. A tour pro is often out of room at impact Like Tiger Woods is atm.

tiger_thumb.pngHeld off release, held off body pivot, arisen legs, hips, shoulders, not good seeing a guy who won 4 majors in a row once being below average now.

What we want is a motion that has as few compensations as possible that we are able to fire at the ball and swing freely without concerning us to get it right there. Problem for many amateurs are is they don’t know what a pro level impact feels like with its divot.

If you don’t then its likely you have a compensation as a swing and even if you do know your likely to re-route it like Jim Fyruk does or others do and even if all the back swings are different for most parts its just how those players learned to make the timing needed to get their body there properly. Its also why no tour pro is able to do 10 swings in a row with the same tempo.

Hans is able to do that.

Once you are stabilize the pivot, then the release fully your into doing something only one man was able to do trough history his name was Moe Norman. I know what people say in the single axis camp Moe was stated to belong to but he was accurate way before he was old and even if Hans looks different and hit a 6i as long Moe hit driver they do share the same similarities and consistency.

Kelvin study tour pros – I don’t, I find their swings flawed. It’s a power or accuracy leakage or something in between and they all try to hold back their actions to improve their game. It’s a good thing to study as understanding their swings also helps me build a better foundation and definition of these type of swing action.

I want Hans to be an animal out there, primitive if you like to fire it all if needed and sneak around if needed. The main reason is as long we have a full release and action that supports that then you have a wider margin for error and increased consistency and last I checked consistency beat talent. How good you are it wont matter as you slip up and you will slip up as a tour pro and a normal day your 8% dispersion is fine but if you meet someone who does 2-4% all day out your just not able to beat them a simple math thing.

Then its all about if you can putt consistently also and I built such also for Hans.

How it all will work?

I got no clue first time I am doing it.

80% or so of all tour pro use a strong grip, as their trying to balance their rotation with their shoulder moves. Hans kept his grip and just open the blade to compensate. It wont matter if he is able to do so with timing and consistency, it might be a need to tweak but will see about that. He needed to open the blade as he once in a while hit it left, it was not a path issue but a face issue. Open the blade worked so the new ball laws works.

Steve Pratt talks about this release a bit here.

 

You cant btw rotate the right forearm at impact if you do then your doing a Phil Mickelson move.

A full release then your right hand is going under like a police guy waving forward the cue.  This allows you to work with the force momentum with the pivot to release fully. Its why Larry at age 67 will hit it longer than he ever did in his golfing career soon.

However the full release wont work with a tour pro pivot as you will hook it off the planet if you do.

A full release is as it sounds, your not holding back as tour pros does.

What’s a good impact position?

This is Hans, at impact he has the angle of the left leg and the spine.7i

Once you have this you compress the ball due to the angle you arrive at impact is due to pressure point.

Mike Austin, even more spine angle due to hitting a driver, I also posted spoon for Hans, his spine angle has increased.
ma4

 

 

 

 

spoon

 

Lets look at Tiger Woods a once awesome player winning 4 majors in a row and now?

tiger

Late to impact, no spine angle to talk about, left shoulder and left leg arises sharply before impact, needs timing not even he can do consistently.  Currently a bad swing below average tour standard.

Yes TW find impact, but I would ask is that a good impact position you can do consistently?

No way, and its beyond me why he does that shit.

 

rob

Me today. While not where I want to be, its getting better.
3 months to go for range work.

 

 

 

 

 

Now while positions are fun and good, the question is why it looks the way it does for Mike and for Hans? Similar if not identical pressure points they respond to and reference they use, its why its fluid and effortless. For myself, well its work in progress now and its getting better.

How you get to impact is important as this image show us, Hans 2011 vs today, the old one he has less spine angle, left pelvis moved and much more constraint and compensation than he has today. So while an image can show things it also lacks the motion and the way you got there.
jämför

I know where to go but I need balls for feedback now as any change you need great feedback.

However once the swing is done, you go play. I expect myself to do so during spring, work to finish this then go play.

What’s a good back swing position?

It depends.

if you do a modern style swing its like this,
fwpro

You see pelvis has turned into a wheel barrow.
The V shape of the pelvis and body don’t allow for power.
The head don’t move in the back swing, you cover the ball, all modern swing geometry concepts.

I don’t agree upon this being a good back swing position.

 

 


or you can do this,

hansMove off the ball, basically no V shape between pelvis and the body, no wheelbarrow. You can swing 20mph faster with less effort than a modern swing is able to do without straining and getting off the limitations they have.

A superb position IMO.

Now a guy like Monte said the guy I show that is a great swing. I disagree on that yes it’s a great swing if you like to hit it short and inconsistent as no human guy I know wants to hit it short, none.

I rather look like Hans in my back swing than that other modern swing. Its my preference as I never found restrictions in motion is good for timing.

A tour pro is trying to control their swing and I train Hans to go wild. I train him to be more animal to be raw to swing within his preferences to make him do what he wants to do not what the swing wants you to do.

rob

Its much like riding a bike, you can sit down all the time or stand up and ride the country wildly. My own swing and its back ground is being re-worked daily now and changes are made based upon the template.

When done I look like Hans swings also.

I would do a change based upon personal preferences, mine are a fast swing, my muscle receptors fire fast and to learn the proper pelvis action I reverted to dance feel and action. I can do that as it allows me to become aware of what I want to do when I swing.

Yes, Hans is the poster guy, the role model for this swing but I am now also posting more about my own progress and also soon Larry. Once done we will look like Hans or Austin just in our own way.

mike

 

Mike Austin hitting an iron. No V shape.

Golf swing updates (updated)

Had a in-depth chat with Larry, he now have the foundation there. So I hope the coming days he is able to hit the range, work on it and send a video or two to check for. He hits it longer yes, by far it still arise when it use to go down. I estimate a few weeks until its just is solid golden swing from him.

He really had a good couple of days, the text I sent him and the work he done and my chat today made its just better so he should be able to really have a good swing motion for next video update.

Hans hit a ball today also, feels good he says.

5 iron

 

My own progress?

its just range I wait for.

I still turn and rotate a bit into the down swing, it will get fixed once I hit balls (main flaw atm).  Right knee and leg is improving and will also improve with balls. Its now much better since last time indoors with balls.

Comparing myself when I swing indoors demo this for Larry vs actually swing with a ball isn’t fair but at least give an impression of if I am on track or not.
jämföra

I lack a slight pelvis drop, also due to lack of ball as I don’t want to hit the floor and I don’t if I swing this way and feedback from range is what I need right now. Pelvis is angled, good, I increased spine angle, good. Right knee folding, good. Rotational move is holding this back atm. However its better and as far I can conclude the next few days Larry going to set new records. His old swing limitation is gone and handled without needing to be fixed.

Update: So looking at my own action, the why was obvious so altered the start of the swing was needed. Fixed it by altering the left foot a bit and angling a bit differently.
All good now. still hitting balls at the range is needed.

How good is Hans?

I wanted to build a world class player.
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Once I went into study the golf swing mechanics I also applied the same for me as I would benefit and also help me understand this better and once that was going on consistency search also happen as any tour pro needs that but none has it.

I think in terms of skills here, like if Hans has a 2-4% dispersion pattern and he should have that this spring, and normally a player wins when they are at those numbers, and when they don’t they have a 8% as a normal one and even worse when they hit it way more, like Mickelson hitting a 7i 15 yards off line and into a forest.

So its about dispersion control, then distance and then efficiency.

Talking to Hans its evident this is all getting there and I fully assume and expect him to be around 2-4% dispersion as his normal pattern. That is what happens when your able to focus on what works.

I am about to talk to Larry soon on Skype, he now have all there is there to know about his golf swing except one thing, swinging it like pros with their impact. Its also hard to learn by yourself if you’re an amateur like myself been,what’s a pro impact, what does it feel like and how do I do it?

One of the things I did notice indoors with Simon hitting balls I could consistently make ball contact first. I knew how to get my club head there, and the ball took off. Now I had some body motions that was good, but from where I come from I notice the difference and I also took notice off this is how those pro guys does it. Recently at indoors home I cant do much more now, I need range work to improve ball impact and how much I need to alter my down swing to make it the way I want it. I expect to swing it like a pro during spring.

If I can play like a pro is another matter, the same way its about how good Hans is, we find out. If he can have those skills into those I want, and improve them, he either win or be in contention in every competition he enters. World class then.

I am 50 year old, and I own kids in fps games like BF4. It’s a bad game design and DICE really dropped the ball since BF2 days. I view golf swings and instructors much the same, they want you to have a hand or arm or elbow somewhere and I think however I see them swing and they say its better they are not able to do it consistently. I then study Moe Norman as he was consistent, and yes Mike Austin guys would say they hit  a 6i the same distance Moe hit driver and Moe still would beat them with 15 shots. So I looked into Moe, and formulated an idea there, then added Nicklaus, and then set things in motion this spring. Its most likely the amateurs I am teaching as of today is the only ones I take on. My skill set is geared towards the PGA/LPGA tour as my skill set is without question so much more efficient than those coaches have at their disposal. So I wait for Hans to practice play, then once that works, then I find out how he does in competitions.

Skill set decide to a large extent how good you be, as you can improve a skill set and if your normal one is what the guys winning have, well then you will do good whoever skill and background you have.

Larry for example is 67 years old and haven’t yet understood how a tour pro makes contact which is now his limitation or inhibition if you like and to discover that himself is possible but hard, so I taught and pointed out to him what he needed to build to get there, but I haven’t told him why I said the things I said, he just a good student, follow my instructions, those that don’t like my teaching style, well they wont last past my writing.
I taught his body and mind this you need to learn then this, feel and sensations then this and then that and he done it all. Tonight I let the dog loose, the tiger, the elephant into the room of glass.  Time to go animalistic.

How should you discover what its like to feel a tour pro impact if you never done it? How can you change the pattern unless you discover the proper correct one? Its really hard to do so yourself without support, Skype allows me to see you swing, it helps me to add variations into your patterns and teach you about what your body is doing educating your action until you can arrive at what works.

Larry is about there now. He is a dedicated student, just ask his wife.

To discover what its like allows you feedback, if your play as Hans is discovering that he just hits it straight then I can help him improve that now with RBIm pattern’s as that is doable but focus on technique isn’t.  If you measure your skill level if I do this then I am playing like this then its all you need to do to create the foundation to play at your potential.

Once Hans does that, Jacob Bowden is going to call me and Stacy Lewis.

If they don’t well, I be here waiting sipping coffee.

Hans Update

hansspain

Ok, storm this weekend so no play. He still was out there playing a bit but couldn’t say much. I asked him about his game and he says, I never been able to swing this good. He feels consistency is up, he is a bit longer atm a club or so. I hope he can play 18 next weekend. He also struggled a bit with distance control due to what club to use is now new again.

He felt good.

Moe Norman golf swing

I like this Moe video.

Let say you want to copy Moe’s ball striking.

Problem is here you cant do it from the stance he used at old age. You cant get the same action Moe did doing that.

Now Moe set the club up behind the ball like a foot or such not set up straight like your told to do. Now doing that you do as Moe would say save a foot of moving the body and he also says, I couldn’t hit the ball the way if I set the club at the ball. Moe, then just did what he felt he needed to do, angled his club and body away a bit, then hit it.

For anyone doing this, it will simplify your motion in the back swing, its now just a lift and you still need to know the weight shift as copy a good player means they often do things your or me as a player isn’t doing so copy what they tell you they did and reason for it might not work.

Naturally as range opens up I go out there set it up like Moe and find out if it helps me simplify what I am doing. Just because a few million people even a billion talks mandarin or such don’t mean they are the main language in the world but one day might be according to Joss Whedon. Just because people tell you to set up the club behind the ball don’t mean it’s the best way to learn to swing the club. The question I would ask Moe if he was around, how come he cant hit it with the club head behind the ball vs the one he did?

Once he angle out his set up, he also angle his upper and middle body along the way. He essentially make the same move Ben Hogan used to do with the back leg moving off it as fast he could, now Hogan did that due to his bad right leg and Moe learned to do that with his swing as he swung at his younger age you see dynamic athletic action and how he learned to respond to the pressure points, that when he grow old does also but now it doesn’t look athletic anymore.

This is Hans 2011.

2014

 

So while he was able to swing at around 120mph with his old swing his back couldn’t handle it. Now? He be able to swing at 130mph with less effort than his old 120mph swing. It now looks simpler than what he used to do. It is, its more efficient and better.

Getting there for him took less than 3 weeks from the last down swing sequence and since I told him about pressure points 8 weeks.

Larry atm have the sequence down now, next stop for him as he can respond is to change the down swing for him but for Larry it means a different thing than for Hans or for Moe. Larry has the swing motion now I wanted him to have. I didn’t teach him that swing motion, he taught himself. Now he has left overs from his old swing, and I bet when I tell him what I am telling him next time we Skype he will go, oh but that’s easy?

Its easy or simple now when he done the work to the point when we can change it to work for him. Its like Hans, took me a long time to get his ass out of his head to actually listens that whatever he been taught is bad for him and he needed to change this, today? He tells me should done this 20 years ago.

Looking at Moe, we see 50 years of swing simplified. Copy or replicate what he tells you even his set up is not good its a disaster waiting. Look at Mike Austin he was a educated man, smart but still the students are not able to replicate the motion he did as they are missing out on something. Its like that for anyone including me, its why I don’t teach people the way NLP does it as I find more copies of Grinder, Bandler, Dilts, Riggio etc..are not good for NLP in the long run nor more copies of me.

I love when my students surprise me like Margareta did as she said to me what I taught her and I smiled to her and said, no baby you did that on your own.

Larry is about to surprise himself.

I think Moe will agree on that.